Monday, May 11, 2009

We're Not Animals, Honest.

Millwall 'fans' on the pitch on Saturday.

Millwall, Millwall, Millwall. When will you learn? Last Saturday's play-off game with Leeds was marred by Millwall 'fans' joining their hero's on the pitch after Neil Harris scored the only goal of the game. Leeds keeper Casper Ankergren was shoved and a lit cigarette sent in his direction. But Millwall FC blame the papers for over-exaggerating. Again?

Poor Millwall, they suffer from a bad rep. Awwwww. No really. They are a family club who are still living under shadow of a bad image created by thugs of the 70's and 80's. Bollocks Millwall. Your supporters are animals. They tried to set fire to Carrow Road a few years ago. Threw bricks at Police horses during a play-off with Birmingham and they cause trouble whenever the occasion is big enough to put enough of these clowns in the same location. Millwall are blaming the press for having an 'agenda'!


Goons take to the pitch after Neil Harris puts the Lions 1 nil up.


Leeds stopper Casper Ankergren is confronted by an idiot Millwall 'supporter'.

The only regrettable incident during the afternoon followed Millwall's goal when two fans managed to elude the stewards and taunt the Leeds goalkeeper. It is clear certain journalists were sent to The Den with their agenda already formed. It appears that a cigarette was also thrown which made no contact with the goalkeeper, who may also have been pushed in the back. Journalists and the media have a duty to play their part by reporting factually and responsibly.
- Millwall FC.


"Two fans"? Hmm, I see more than 2 in this picture and in the vids above.


So you don't feel your reputation for hooliganism is justified, Millwall?

Hmm, lets look back over the last few years, what can I find...

4 August 2001
Millwall v Tottenham Hotspur
At 11.00am more than 100 Millwall hooligans travelled to an arranged meeting with the Tottenham "Yid Army" on Jamaica Road in Bermondsey. After vicious fighting, police reinforcements split the two groups. Police and ordinary fans again came under heavy and sustained attack from Millwall supporters near the New Den.

Hooligans from both clubs left the match ten minutes before the final whistle to continue their battle. At half past eight Tottenham hooligans returned to Bermondsey and attacked the Caulkers Pub. About 30 police officers and three police horses were injured during the day. One man was also taken to hospital with knife wounds.

19 August 2001
Birmingham City v Millwall
West Midlands Police mounted a huge operation after intelligence suggested Millwall hooligans were travelling in large numbers to take on the Birmingham City "Zulus". Under massive escort the Millwall group was escorted from New Street Station to the ground.

On the way back Birmingham City fans attempted to attack Millwall at the station. There were running battles with riot police, who also had to deal with the arrival of the Wolves hooligan group returning from their away match with Coventry.


21 August 2001
Millwall v Cardiff City
A potentially explosive mid-week fixture in the first round of the Worthington Cup. In the event only a few hundred Cardiff fans made the journey to London. Very few hooligans from Cardiff’s "Soul Crew" went to the Den.

However, after the game, young Millwall fans ran riot in the streets around the ground. Cars and shops were smashed and bricks and bottles were thrown at police long into the night.

25 August 2001
Millwall v Burnley
Just four days after the Cardiff game there was a repeat performance. Around 250 Millwall fans repeatedly attacked Burnley fans as they were escorted by police back to South Bermondsey Station. The hooligans fought with police for a further hour once the Burnley fans were gone.

20 October 2001
Millwall v Nottingham Forest
There was a major police operation to keep rival fans apart. Serious disorder broke out after the match as Millwall hooligans tried to attack Forest supporters on their way to the station.

31 October 2001
Wolverhampton Wanderers v Millwall
A large group of up to 250 Millwall hooligans burst through the police lines at Wolverhampton station. They attacked the Feathers Pub, near Molineux, where members of the Wolves "Subway Army" were drinking. Two Wolves hooligans were slashed in the face with Stanley knives. The groups were split up before the rest of the Wolves hooligans could arrive on the scene.

13 December 2001
Millwall v Portsmouth
Millwall supporters attacked a group of Portsmouth fans in the Windmill Pub near Waterloo Station. Eye-witnesses told how Portsmouth appeared to summon Millwall by mobile telephone. When Millwall arrived they attacked the pub with bottles, bricks and dustbin lids.

Portsmouth responded by throwing back everything they could lay their hands on. Every window of the pub was smashed while most of the furniture in the pub was either broken or ended up outside. Of the 100 people involved, all got away. After the match a Portsmouth supporter was brutally attacked outside the New Den.

10 January 2002
Millwall v Birmingham City
A half eaten pie was thrown at a linesman by a Millwall fan.

26 January 2002
Millwall v Blackburn Rovers
A car clamper van targeted a line of Millwall supporters cars after being employed by a private local estate. When the fans returned to their vehicles the mood turned ugly and the police were called.

The clamper’s own vehicle was overturned and fans’ cars were released without fines being imposed. Police describe the clamper as either the "bravest or most stupid man alive".

9 February 2002
Nottingham Forest v Millwall
An unprecedented security operation was put in place to prevent Forest and Millwall hooligans from clashing in Nottingham. 270 police officers were deployed, 36 pubs were closed and the kick-off was moved to noon in a successful bid to stop any trouble.

About half of the Forest group were spotted drinking in Netherfield before kick-off. They boarded a train due to arrive in Nottingham at the same time as a train full of known Millwall hooligans. Police held the Millwall train back. After the game there was a stand-off between Forest and the police while Millwall were escorted to the train station.

9 March 2002
Portsmouth v Millwall
Kick-off was brought forward to noon in a bid to prevent trouble from breaking out. Before and after the match groups of fans tried to get at each other but were kept apart by a wall of police wearing riot helmets and wielding batons.

The two groups of hooligans taunted each other and threw missiles along Goldsmith Avenue and Frogmore Road. Goldsmith Avenue was closed to traffic and pubs were shut.

16 March 2002
Millwall v Sheffield Wednesday
Millwall hooligans attacked Sheffield Wednesday supporters as they left the ground. Police officers were hit with bricks and bottles and two needed hospital treatment.

5 April 2002
Millwall v Wolverhampton Wanderers
The Wolves hooligan group (the "Subway Army") arrived in Paddington and were spotted by two police officers. Their coach was escorted to the Den.

A huge policing operation (more than 300 officers) prevented the hooligan groups from clashing. Police were pelted with bricks, bottles and fireworks by Millwall fans attempting to get to the Wolves supporters.

2 May 2002
Millwall v Birmingham City
A total of 45 police officers were injured when trouble erupted after Millwall lost to Birmingham in the Division One play-offs.

Police said a group of 900 Millwall fans spent an hour throwing missiles, including bricks, paving stones, a chisel, flares and fireworks at police. Two cars were also set alight.

A Scotland Yard spokeswoman said out of 36 mounted police officers, 24 were injured. Six officers required hospital treatment. Three police horses were also injured, two seriously. A total of seven people were arrested.

I could go on and on and on! I think I will!


Swansea 2006


Trashing Busses in Leeds 2007


2007 with West Ham


2008 at Leeds

Let's look at this year. The game with Leeds, an isolated incident this season? Oh no, it appears not. Cup tie with Hull back in January. 50 seats ripped up by Millwall fans and 12 arrested.


Millwall @Hull. Animals.

This club ALWAYS has issues when they play in big games. The idiots that come for the trouble and not the football stay away from reg games and all turn up for the big occasions, spoiling the party. Millwall FC need to take responsibility for their ticketing policy. Screening of supporters and lack of security. In the past they have promised to do so but now the press has an 'agenda'.

Millwall FC's reputation is deserved and earned. The club has let down its genuine supporters by failing to curb the goons. Their 'agenda' is to ignore the facts and stick their heads in the sand. Shame on you Millwall. At least no Police horses were killed at this game. That's something. Every club has a few idiots but Millwall has many. Theses days hooliganism is pretty much dead in football. The odd arrests on derby days up and down the country are credit to police operations and sensible crowd management by football clubs. Cardiff and Leeds have bad reps also but have been quiet for a long time. Millwall are the exception. They need to follow the rest of the football community and get their shit together. Their fans are dragging the rest of football into the gutter.

Saturday's events are being investigated by the FA.

-Bigus.

47 comments:

Nathaniel said...

Danny Dyer agrees with this post...

MFC said...

Wow... You sad little boy. I would've taken this seriously, but you can't even spell, so I'll just laugh it off. How old are you?

Do you even know anything about Millwall? Clearly you don't, as you've spouted so much bullshit in your fancy little article.

Get a life.

Mac said...

To be fair - and as a Charlton fan it pains me to be fair to the bastards - the press release says that two fans confronted the goalkeeper, which is exactly what happened.

Honestly, other than those two clowns I don't see anything too horrible about the pitch invasion. Bit of fun for a club hero, but those two do ruin it more than a little.

Autoglass said...

At the risk of having my home fire-bombed, I'd like to commend Bigus for a fantastic post.

Kopper said...

Ha! The Milwall supporter tells Bigus to "Get a life." Isn't that what we all think to ourselves when we hear of another instance of Milwall douchebaggery?

Milwall has the least controlled fans and, as we see above, are not isolated incidents. Is there something in the water over there, or are they missing a chromosone?

Kopper said...

And yes, I guess in my last post I called your esteemed club Milwall instead of Millwall. In addition to their missing chromosone, I had them missing an "L" as well. Apologies.

MoonshineMike said...

invading the pitch is like people storming the floor. You look like dorks doing it. But it's Millwall, so what the hey!

Bigus gets Big Ups for the writeup. And I don't even hate Millwall.

Steve said...

well done, sir.

Bigus Dickus said...

@MFC. I would be angry like you if my club's image was being crippled by a few hundred goons who spoil the good name of the team for the rest. Unfortunately the club does nothing to prevent it.

And yes I know plenty about Millwall. I have been to the old den, the new den and watched as home supporters made 'cut throat' gestures at visiting fans including me.

I also watched as Millwall's visiting fans tried to set fire to the old south stand at Norwich. I was also disgusted to watch as police horses wee pelted with bricks when Birmingham visited your club a few years back.

As for Saturday, 2 were causing the delay in the game and acting like idiots sure, but what about the dozen other muppets that climbed over the hoardings on to the pitch and wouldn't go back again. This is the latest in a very long and pathetic line of incidents.

Millwall FC have no control over who comes in/travels and are naive when it comes to big games. Where did they think the difference between 8,000 to a home game and 13,000 was coming from? Nearly every big game Millwall has played EVER has been marred by hooligans who don't give a shit about football.

Thanks for reading my 'fancy little article'. I'll be here all week.

Wayne said...

What a load of sensationalised bollocks.

The examples you gave were from 2001 and 2002 - the best part of a decade ago.
MFC haver implemented a membership scheme which means anyone that acts up can be traced via the club's database.
2 people confronted the keeper, no one seems to mention the fact that Ankergen SPAT at one of them - the result being he threw his cigarette at him.
By the way you're going on about it he might as well have cut Ankergen's head off and taken a shit into his open throat.
People ran on the pitch to celebrate an extremely important goal, so fucking what?!?! The reaction from the press is absolutely ridiculous.
Get a sense of perspective and stop regurgitating what the gutter press say, maybe people will take your opinion seriously then.

Kopper said...

Hey Wayne,
What about the videos linked above from 2006, 2007 and 2008? I suppose in each of those instances your "membership scheme" was working quite well? Excuses, excuses.... Everything is always the media's fault. Hmm, I guess the media ripped up the 50 seats at Hull, then, did they? Pathetic.

Autoglass said...

At the risk of having my neck stabbed, I find it hilarious when Millwall supporters make this out to be some kind of media pogrom. Honestly, a belly laugh. Stop! Yer killing me!

Hammers fixed it, Millwall could fix it. But they won't because they are shit, know they are shit, and figure that they will only keep selling tickets by ignoring the cancer on their club.

It's sad, really. Millwall has passion and tradition. But in ignoring this crap - nay, claiming stereotyping! - they are chasing dollars down the sewer.

Bigus has only talked sense. Trust me on this, I know the man. If he wanted to wind you up, he'd have you spitting nails.

ü75 said...

Trust me on this, I know the man. If he wanted to wind you up, he'd have you spitting nailsDude speaks the truth on that. It's his gift.

MFC said...

Sorry, I stopped reading your reply at 'the club does nothing'.

That proves you know absolutely nothing. Millwall do more than any other club to eridicate it, which has been shown in awards they have won. But, like every other idiot, you just concentrate on the bad points. No other club causes trouble, do they? No other club celebrates a big goal like that, do they? And before you harp on about the 2 idiots, the majority of supporters want those one game a season idiots banned.

I've seen some articles on Millwall in my time, but this one is actually the worst. Try harder next time, eh? Better still, have the balls to go and confront the club instead of hiding behind your keyboard. You'll be laughed out the door in seconds.

Wayne said...

Kopper - those incidents at Swansea, Hull and Leeds were because of the home sides fans giving it the constant 'come on'. Being pelted with coins and bottles of piss usually doesn't go down too well....

The video of wall and West Ham is of West Ham fans - can you not hear them singing "Irons, Irons, Irons"

That leads me nicely onto Autoglass's point about West Ham. This season at Stoke, West Ham fans stabbed one steward, bottled a FEMALE steward in the face, and fought with Stoke fans outside the ground. Nobody seems to be going on about that, oh but then it's the cheeky chappy cockney types so it's fine. West Ham have not eradicated football hooliganism and they never will.

Have the media gone mental about the pitch invasion at Bramall Lane last night? No. Did they go on about Mick McCarthy being confronted at Wolves vs Barnsley. No.

These incidents are common at a good proportion of clubs in this country not just Millwall.

Wayne said...

Oh, it seems Ankergen has previous...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-561623/Leeds-keeper-Ankergren-escape-ban-throwing-lighter-crowd.html

Kopper said...

"Oh come on...." You are actually saying that because fans taunted you guys (with words only at Hull, mind you) that it was OK to lose the plot and trash Hull? That's rich. Maybe an ounce of contrition and embarassment that your fans have caused over the years (and still do, but to a lesser degree) might make your position a bit more understandable.

But no, you and MFC come in here, thinking your club is like every other one in England and that the press are out to get you.

Funny, try looking for youtube videos for Norwich fans, or any of a number of other club's supporters causing mayhem. You might find one or two, but certainly not the library that are there right now for Millwall, and certainly not with the bagfull of excuses you two bring to the table.

Bob said...

How naive can you be?

Do the same level of research into any number of clubs and see what you come up with.

To a name a few...

West Ham, Spurs, Chelsea, Pompy, Stoke, Cardiff, Birmingham, Leeds, Burnley, Cardiff, Man U

No one at Millwall will deny that they have had one of the more significant hooligan elements going, however the club have done more than any other in order to prevent it.

It is utterly bizarre and totally naive to single Millwall out as the one single club where there is still hooliganism.

As for 20 or so supporters running on the pitch celebrating a potentially very important goal it happens all the time at every club. It's not a big deal.

I'm proud of the club for making that statement. It's about time they took a stand against lazy journalists sent to hatchet jobs at The Den, just like when The Sun claimed Millwall fans were saluting "Sieg Heil" when in reality it was Brighton fans singing "seagulls!"

MFC said...

Well done Kopper for completely ignoring every single post made by a Millwall fan in this blog so far.

We've said the idiots deserve a ban, which rules out your statement of we don't care about it.

The above statement of the Sun article with Roy Esinuoh, the sensationalised press of Saturday' game prove the press are out to get us, ruling out your point of we THINK they're out to get us. Yes, they ARE.

And why do you think there's loads of Millwall videos on YouTube? Because everyone loves to paint us in a bad light. Where's the videos of 24,000 of us behaving, and outsinging Manchester United from minute one at the Cup Final? Where's the videos of the incrediblt atmosphere from Saturday?

There's only one set of people that wants Millwall's reputation to continue - not the real Millwall fans, but people like you and the idiot that made this blog.

Bigus Dickus said...

"Millwall do more than any other club to eradicate it, which has been shown in awards they have won."

@MFC. Not enough clearly. I am well aware of their previous efforts to stop hooligans and their failures. Efforts forced upon them by the FA.

1: You are biased and as such are spewing nonsense in defense of your club. I am partisan in my efforts and this makes me rational in this discussion. Fair play, I would be the same about Norwich. Glad you are passionate. Maybe you should aim that at the club and ask them to fix your tarnished reputation.

2: "We are Millwall, no one likes us...We don't care". No one likes you because you tolerate hooliganism away from home and don't do enough to stop it; And if you didn't care, you would not be on here venting your spleen.

@Wayne and Bob. No one is denying that Cardiff, Leeds, West Ham, Spurs, Forest etc have issues and 'fans' who like to cause trouble. Difference is that these days incidents with those clubs fans are few and far between. The clubs are doing their best and succeeding. Millwall issued ID cards a few years ago and this stops rioting fans away from home how? Just this January you disgraced yourselves at Hull. I cannot remember one incident in a stadium like that involving any of the clubs you mentioned. Can you?

Come on lads. These idiots are spoiling the name of Millwall for it's real fans. Don't you want to shed this reputation?

@Wayne. I don't recall United fans slinging lit ciggies at the Preston Keeper last night. Did I miss that? Pitch invasions at the end of a game are not the same as during a game are they.

Lets see what happens at Elland Road on Thursday. I hope you come back and point out a clean bill of health for that game. Won't be one tho' will there?

Wayne said...

Were you at Hull? No, so how the fuck do you know what went on up there?
If by words you mean what's printed on bottle wrappers and stamped on coins, then yeh, it was just words.
I didn't say our club was like every other club. The fact is the press have made a mountain out of a molehill out of what happened on Saturday yet have completely ignored incidents caused by fans of other clubs.
If you had any sense of reasoning maybe you would take these points into account. You seem to think I'm trying to defend the actions of those people, I'm not, I'm trying to tell the truth. To give you a look at the bigger picture, which you seem to completely ignore because you are adamant that a) whatever the press said about Saturday is the absolute truth and b) incidents caused by any other set of fans are irrelevant because they go unreported. That's my point, the fact that they go unreported show there is a media bias towards reporting on Millwall.
You seem to think that by illustrating the media's over-zealous nature of reporting on Millwall is an attempt at blaming them for what happened - it isn't. I'm just saying that it would be nice for the press to report fairly and accurately on other incidents rather than focusing on something which has very little significance in terms of disorder.

Fact is - 20 odd people got on the pitch after we scored a goal in a play off semi-final. The majority got on the pitch to CELEBRATE and caused no harm what-so-ever. Two people confronted Casper Ankergen, the player spat at one of the fans, said fan retaliated by throwing is cigarette at him. MFC have banned both fans for the incident which is a fair and reasonable punishment.

Now stop wanking yourself silly over a non-event and get down to writing about those "special Anfield nights" and other non-exsistent footballing cliches...

Bob said...

How can you possibly know that such other incidents do not go on if it is not reported? It is not few and far between at other clubs. If you do proper research you will see this.

How can you think that it goes on so much more regularly at one club in particular. That makes absolutely no sense.

Bigus Dickus said...

RE: Membership ID's "The scheme introduced by Paphitis still applies, but for away games only. Many Millwall fans blame Paphitis' scheme for diminishing Millwall's support at away games."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millwall_F.C.

Clearly a syestem that works away from home.

This scheme was only implemented to stop the Police suing Millwall.

Yes, I see that Millwall are doing everything they can, including the suspension of id cards at home so they can sell more tickets to people who don't want to carry id cards. Why is that?

I also clearly state in my argument that these fans come out of the wood work for BIG MIllwall games and spoil the games for real supporters. This is true. Your home gate this season was around 8,000. Saturday it was over 13,000. Away to Hull? How many more travelled than your usual away crowd? These are not real supporters but thugs looking for trouble. Why would you defend them? The club are well aware that they would not sell 13,000 tickets with an id scheme in place and they know why. It's irresponsible.

Bigus Dickus said...

@BOB. Here we go again with the 'media agenda'. No, local news outlets just ignore these things. Only Millwall gets published. When Norwich play Ipswich, there are always a few arrests and local stores damaged. These details are ALWAYS reported on. As was the trouble a few of our goons got into at Leicester in 2007. Well publicized and resulting in jail terms.

@Wayne. How do I know? Did the BBC hire hollywood CGI designers to re-create the footage from that game? Come on now.

What happened to.."We are Millwall, no one likes us, we don't care"

Wayne said...

The membership scheme is unpopular because it doesn't allow people to pay on the day for away games. It is just an inconvenience and creates too much hassle for getting tickets for away games. The fact it was implemented by an unpopular chairman didn't help.

The Leeds game was Members + Season Ticket holders only (although the club later allowed members + st holders to buy for guests). We sold our FA Cup final allocation with just members and season ticket holders, same goes for the semi final. How much trouble was caused at those two games - none.
Oh and to say that the 'thugs' aren't real fans shows how much you know about Millwall.
They grew up in the same area and support the club just as much as anyone else. In fact there are people that were involved in the 70's and 80's who are contributing to the club more than anyone else (in terms of finance, sponsorship and consultation between the board and the fans).

Bigus Dickus said...

Thanks for your input Wayne. There is nothing better than reasoned argument on this site. You are right, they were behaved for those two games, but not for many others hey?

As for buying away tickets on the day. That's a lame excuse. Many clubs ONLY pre-sell away games and most Championship teams have this policy. Something Millwall fans will have to get used to if MFC are promoted. But this is not the real reason the scheme is unpopular is it? Hassle to buy tickets in advance? Come on. Do these people also fail to buy train tickets in advance? Theatre tickets? Concert tickets? This is no reason. It's unpopular because it tries to stop hooligans and ties a name to a face!

Bigus Dickus said...

oh and last time Millwall came to Norwich, there were around 50 people who did not take their eyes off opposing, singing Norwich fans in the Barclay stand. Taunting and making gestures. They were not there to watch the game and didn't. Footy fans for sure.

BOB said...

What happened on Saturday was a nothing incident. Pitch celebrations happen everywhere, all of the time. Two silly sods showed themselves up and were dealt with.

I do not think the media have an agenda as such, rather that they are lazy and we are an easy target.

I don't think you can really compare Norwich vs. Ipswich, I realise that it is an important derby are neither team particularly have a reputation for trouble.

I don't care if no one likes us but I take issue with this naive attitude that hooliganism is so much more apparant with Millwall than anywhere else.

Wayne said...

Whatever happened to fair and balanced journalism?

You brought up all these examples of how Millwall fans have behaved to back up your argument that what happened on saturday was entirely malicious. In reality those examples are completely irrelevant. Whatever happened in the past doesn't necessarily make a brief pitch invasion an act of hooliganism.

You have completely ignored the fact the majority of fans on the pitch on saturday posed no threat and were just celebrating an important goal. You have continually rambled on about how Millwall fans have acted up in the past but what relevance does that have to the events on saturday - very little.

I do think you're a bit over-sensitive on the whole issue, you would of thought Millwall fans had committed mass genocide the way you've reacted to it. As if 20 fans on the pitch affects your life what-so-ever, why do you even give a fuck?

BOB said...

I find it amazing how the actions of Liverpool fans resulted in the deaths of 39 innocent fans and English teams banned from Europe but no one will ever associate Liverpool with violence. It is unfortunate that as a small club without much success it is quite acceptable for us to have such a stigma attached.

Lingering Bursitis said...

@Bob

You need to drop this media bias angle, because it's not working. If there exists a stereotype of Millwall fans as loud, violent thugs, it exists solely because enough has happened over the years to make the tag stick.

It's unfortunate, sure, and it's certainly not isolated in that Millwall FC is the only club in the world that engages in such thuggery, but to suggest it's some media agenda is ridiculous.

Something certainly needs to change, else papers wouldn't print it, and we wouldn't blog about it.

Oh, as a lifelong, born-and-raised Liverpool fan, I understand thuggery, but I also know that in our neck of the woods, that element has faded into the background. Anfield's a glorious place to go these days, whereas 15 years ago, I daren't try.

I do hold you Lions personally responsible for Tim Cahill though. Fucking thug!

Lingering Bursitis said...

@BOB

Here we go, you've thrown piss on the wrong scouser. Yes, we were responsible for Heysel, and yet what have we done in the two decades since? We've cleaned up our act, something Millwall appear incapable of doing.

It may just be a small minority of fans responsible, but you must look to them for answers regarding why the world looks on Millwall FC and thinks "there's a load of scum."

It's sad. It's unfortunate. It's not going away any time soon until strong action is taken.

The NY Kid said...

"Green Street Hooligans" told me that Millwall supporters were lunatic thugs. Why would Hollywood lie to me?

BOB said...

I did not say it was a media agenda, I said it was lazy journalism. I repeat what happened was NOTHING. It was only worthy of attention because it happened at Millwall vs Leeds and their keeper made a big fuss.

The way we have been painted has always been because of the actions of a MINORITY as it is the case with Liverpool and every football club etc. Hooliganism does not occur to same extent as it did in those days anywhere, but it still occurs everywhere.

By painting Millwall as such all it has done is attract more potential hooligans and make ordinary fans targets of other teams who want to make a name for themselves.

Never would I suggest that Millwall do not have significant hooligan element but it is not right that hooliganism is so synominous us in the way that it is.

Lingering Bursitis said...

@Bob

I feel like it's because so many small incidents keep happening while the evidence of matchday hooliganism elsewhere has gone down considerably.

Like I said, if it didn't keep happening in some shape or form, people wouldn't write about it, fans wouldn't blog it and discuss it, and the stereotype wouldn't continue.

Bigus Dickus said...

Wayne.

To your first point, I do say that this is the latest in a line line of incidents. That is true.

To your second point. They should not be on the pitch during a game, 2 of that 20 ran across the pitch and confronted the keeper. Thats enough.

Goal celebrations all over the country do NOT take place on the pitch. I undrstand an end of game pitch invasion to celebrate, thats different.

It does affect my life actually, as it gets on my tits as it's always Millwall that is responsible for every non footy fan here in the states bringing up 'hooliganism' every time I mention I love football.

@BOB. Re: Norwich and Ipswich. It's irrelevent how little or much trouble this game brings, my point was to prove that these incidents are publicized by the press.

BOB said...

By making a mountain out of non-events like Saturdays, the public get a highly distorted image of true events and naturally the stereotype is reinforced. This is what I take issue with, the sort thing that occurs everywhere being twisted and manipulated to once again re-empahsise hooliganism at Millwall.

Regarding Norwich vs. Ipswich - local press and mainstream press are two very different things.

Lingering Bursitis said...

@BOB

The only reason anyone cares to make a mountain out of it is because it's Millwall! We've witnessed incidents big and small there for the better part of three decades!

Bigus Dickus said...

The stereotype does not need reinforcing Bob.

BOB said...

"The only reason anyone cares to make a mountain out of it is because it's Millwall!"

That would be my point.It has been reinforced over and over again to the point to the point where you can not mention the name without some ill-informed, snide remark. I struggle to understand how anyone can really believe that it is an issue only faced to such an extent by Millwall.

The continued demonisation of MIllwall fans will only ever encourage people to live upto the reputation or for others to have a pop at the notorious MIllwall thereby resulting in more trouble.

Wayne said...

Do you not agree that the majority of fans on the pitch were completely harmless? They were celebrating, it was over the top (quite literally) but there was nothing malicious in their actions.

Wayne said...

Disorder caused by other fans this season

West Ham - attacked stewards and Stoke fans outside the ground
Carlisle - invaded the pitch before the end of their last home game.
Leeds - ran onto pitch at Hartlepool
Sheffield United - ran onto pitch at f/t
Barnsley/ Wolves - confronted Mick Mcarthy on the pitch
Birmingham - attacked Preston players on the pitch

Disorder at Millwall by away fans in recent years...

Leeds - ripped seats out
Sheffield Wednesday - ripped seats
Liverpool - ripped seat out
Crystal Palace - ripped seatsand damaged the away fans walkway
West Ham - attempted to get on the pitch
Bristol City - attempted to get into the home end via locked doors in the concourse.

Other incidents in recent years...

Leeds vs Ipswich on the pitch at Elland Road
Liverpool rushing turnstyles in Athens, stealing tickets off of own fans.
Liverpool vs. West Ham at Upton Park
Chelsea vs Tottenham at Parsons Green
Sheff Utd vs Sheff Wed in the home end of Bramall Lane
Wolves vs Cardiff at Molineux
Cardiff vs Tottenham at Ninian Park
Man Utd vs Roma - both legs in the Champions League
Arsenal + Chelsea against various Italians this season
West Ham vs Palermo in Sicily
Middlesborough - UEFA cup final


That's just off the top of my head, It's not just Millwall fans that cause trouble....

Bigus Dickus said...

Wayne, you have included 6 occassions for Millwall and its more like 60. No one is denying that other clubs occasionally have issues. But for every one of theirs, there are 10 for Millwall.

Wayne said...

Swansea vs Cardiff this season
West Ham vs Hull this season
West Ham vs Tottenham
Everton vs Man Utd
Middlesborough vs Man Utd
Leeds vs Man Utd
Leeds vs Galatasary
Arsenal vs Galaltasary
Newcastle vs Middlesborough
Crystal Palace vs Charlton
Southampton vs Portsmouth
Notts County vs Forest (friendly)
Colombus Crew vs West Ham (friendly)

- all fixtures where there's been violence either inside or outside the ground in recent years, could go on
Those six occasions were of AWAY fans playing up.
I could post a load of occasions where Millwall fans did something wrong but obviously I know more about them than other sets of fans activities so it would be completely unbalanced.
I know Millwall has a prominent hooligan element, I'm not denying that, I just think if the press are going to report every single minor incident as a full blown riot they should be fair and report in the same way for every other set of fans.

Bigus Dickus said...

Leeds V Galatasaray was in 2000. I can actually remember reading about 6 of those. So whats the point. The Leeds game was very well publicized, the Arsenal one too.

Again, I am not saying other clubs don't have problems. But they are rare when compared to Millwall, who frequently have problems.

I think the death of the id scheme says it all as far as Millwall FC is concerned. Tickets over stopping trouble.

That said. Good luck in the play-offs. I have plenty of time for Neil Harris and Adrian Forbes.

Wayne said...

Cardiff, Tottenham, Birmingham, Wolves, West Ham, Leeds, Stoke, Man Utd - all don't have 'rare' hooligan problems.

In fact I'm sure they all have more banning orders than us.

An way that wasn't the point, the majority of those incidents didn't receive the media coverage the one on saturday did. Many of them were more violent and there were many more people arrested.

You still haven't recognised the fact the majority of those on the pitch were absolutely harmless.

Adrian Forbes is on loan to Grimsby at the moment, I doubt he will play for Millwall again considering the strength of the current squad.

Bigus Dickus said...

Yeah, I've been following Forbesy. Shame, he was a little terrier.